PAX 07 hands-on: Wii Table Tennis controls are insane

by JC Fletcher { Aug 24th 2007 at 9:45PM }

The first thing I ran into today in the PAX exhibition hall was Rockstar's just-revealed Table Tennis port for the Wii. The graphics, while obviously better than a photo taken of a TV screen would portray, are high-end PS2. That's a pretty familiar statement for a Wii game.

Here's something that's a little uncommon for a Wii game: the controls are way too complicated. There are three different control schemes (full control scheme explanations straight from the game after the break), and they varied in complexity, from Wii Sports-esque to dubbayou-tee-eff. At no point during my short time with the game did I ever feel like I had control over my character.

The standard control scheme requires players to hit A and then motion to serve, with subsequent swings done via familiar Wiimote motions. Spin, indicated by ball color, is done by holding a direction on the D-pad. The complexity comes from what felt like a significant lag between input and action. That's fine for NES Castlevania, but not for something that feigns 1-to-1 motion.

The other two control schemes assign either player movement or ball positioning to the Nunchuk's joystick, and to make a long story short, I didn't know what was going on, and the game made no indication that it knew what I was doing. Maybe with time, I could pick up the nuanced controls, but at this point I can't tell if they're nuanced or nonresponsive.

Tags: pax07, rockstar, tabletennis, wii

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

Sky_Shark @ Aug 24th 2007 9:51PM

Yet another poor Xbox 360 downgraded port.

Josh @ Aug 24th 2007 9:53PM

why didn't they just make it so you swing the wiimote and tilt it to do the different kind of spins?

rruss79 @ Aug 24th 2007 9:59PM

Probably because the Wiimote is not 1 to 1 and thus such control does not exist. Either that or Rockstar sucks at developing for the Wii

Bluebrake @ Aug 24th 2007 10:36PM

Wii Sports Tennis did it alright...

I don't see why they couldn't just have you swing exactly you would with a real paddle. The Wiimote isn't all that sensitive, but I think it would be able to estimate your hand's position relative to your body based on whether you're swinging front hand or backhand, and how much you move it. It wouldn't have to be exact -- the challenge would come from getting the paddle to the right side of your body in time, not from getting it to the exact right spot. You would aim based on how the remote is tilted.

This would also let them speed the game up a hell of a lot. Is it really as slow as it looked in that video earlier this week?

Matters @ Aug 24th 2007 10:47PM

Wii remote is not 1:1? Are you sure about that? It has nothing to do with what the remote is actually capable of. That's just the way game programmers have chosen to program for it.

The remote its self is very accurate.

Tahiri @ Aug 25th 2007 3:59AM

No, Wii is not 1:1 motion. Not even close.

Almack64 @ Aug 27th 2007 1:01PM

I'm a little late to the party but just for reference to any that may read this thread later. It is completely untrue to say the Wii is incapable to do 1:1.

It has already been demostrated with a launch game called Elebits. While the story line truly is "kiddie" its gameplay is actually really fun and above all it shows that wiimote can actually be used as a 1:1 input device.

As said by someone else its not that the Wii is unable to do 1:1 its just that the developers often decide against using that as a control scheme. To be honest for most games a 1:1 control would be too difficult for most people. For instance people like Wii Tennis for the very reason you don't have to be good at Tennis to place, however if it were 1:1 the majority of people would not be able to play a game in same way they really can't play Tennis. However I know this thinking doesn't rule out the possiblites of multiple control schemes.

The truth is what we really want is semi-1:1 motion. A scheme where what happens on screen is based upon what we are "trying" to do or mentally want to do with the controller. Unfortuantly this is probably a lot harder than simple gestures or real 1:1 motion. Maybe someday some developer will program something who actually is able to pull this off. But until then I would bet that well picked gestures is better than 1:1 for most cases.

Michael Santopeietro @ Aug 24th 2007 10:01PM

You're hooked up with component cables and not A/V, right? Cause I noticed a significant improvement on screen/waggle lag time when I switched to component.

Tahiri @ Aug 25th 2007 3:59AM

Placebo effect. The display has nothing to do with the motion sensing.

Stupidiot @ Aug 24th 2007 10:03PM

What the hell kind of TV brand is 'Sceptre'?

colin @ Aug 24th 2007 10:08PM

see Costco

dsub @ Aug 24th 2007 10:44PM

They are a budget LCD TV brand much like Vizio or Olevia. The actually make some pretty decent sets depending on what you buy. They are extremely affordable.

Grizzly @ Aug 24th 2007 10:21PM

I find this quite disappointing – here we have a game that the Wii was made for and it doesn't sound fun at all. I don't think it would be an overreaction to say this will put me off the system. Maybe next time?

Meloche @ Aug 24th 2007 10:25PM

Waaah, that sucks. I was looking forward to this game. I hope they improve the gameplay before they release it.

dsub @ Aug 24th 2007 10:41PM

Based on my experiences with the Wii, this doesn't surprise me. People seem to forget that this is a first-time deal for motion controls like this, and they are not nearly responsive or accurate enough for a game like this.

In my opinion, this is one of the Wii's major downfalls. It always seemed to me like there was a slight delay in time between the motion I made and the action actually taking place on screen. I found it to be especially frustrating in RE4 in situations where there were numerous enemies at very close range and I had to rapidly aim in several directions.

I think this game will be one of the first to show this major flaw in the Wii's control design. It's just NOT responsive enough for a super fast paced game like this. In the end, they will likely either slow the game down for the Wii or simplify or as I like call it "toddlerize" the control scheme. In the end, your motions will be nothing like real table tennis, or the game will be so slow it will take away the fast pace that made it fun on the 360.

Teknoman @ Aug 25th 2007 4:21AM

I really didnt see any lag in response time when I moved the crosshair on RE4 wii edition. Maybe you didnt have the sensitivity turned up enough or had low batteries or something? Either way I even on the hard difficulty (professional?) I didnt notice and lag when moving the wiimote for the crosshair. Registering a knife attack is a different story. Still Rockstar should've just gone with the Wii sports style controls, and gave it at least"High end Xbox 1" quality graphics. Hell everyone knows the Wii is much more capable than high end PS2. Especially since the Gamecube was much stronger than the PS2...and the Wii seems to be based off cube tech.

Burnt Meatloaf @ Aug 25th 2007 4:11AM

Interpreting 3D movement is not easy, especially if the end result must be interpreted on a 2D TV screen. Developers will get better at this over time, but only by figuring out more compromises and adding more handicaps.

The problem isn't that the controller is inaccurate. The problem is that the margin of error must be very large by design to make the games playable. Everyone who complains that the remote is "inaccurate" simply doesn't understand the source of the fault.

What's the point in playing a game if the margin of error is so large, your actions don't really have an influence? Interaction, so your input actually matter, is the whole point of a game. The early gameplay footage for this game showed the ball actually curving in mid-air to hit the paddle. What, is it not possible to play table tennis with a motion sensor unless the virtual ball and paddle contain invisible magnets?

I guess this explains why Wii Sports Tennis controls your character's movement for you. Chasing after the ball is half the game of tennis, but without all those fudge factors and automatic controls, the game would be impossible to play.

Oh well... once the novelty truly wears out its welcome, we can always enjoy the system's other revolutionary, next-gen games like Mario Kart and DK Bongo Blast.

DonWii @ Aug 24th 2007 10:53PM

Has anyone not seen the 1:1 motion in Wii baseball? It can be done. If I remember correctly, Eji Aonuma said, in a Game Informer interview, that the next Zelda would have 1:1 sword fighting.

Tahiri @ Aug 25th 2007 3:59AM

No, no one saw 1:1 motion in wiisports baseball. Because it didn't have 1:1

Burnt Meatloaf @ Aug 25th 2007 4:13AM

Nobody likes Wii Sports Baseball. Every time a story breaks about how revolutionary the Wii is, they always feature tennis or bowling. Guess why.

Admiral_Mike @ Aug 25th 2007 5:02AM

I have, before the ball is tossed, you can move the bat 1:1

Almack64 @ Aug 27th 2007 1:08PM

Unless we are using different definitions of 1:1 what this commentor said is correct, the baseball bat in wii sports is 1:1.

What actually is your definition of 1:1?

megapenguinx @ Aug 24th 2007 11:05PM

way over complicated

phattie @ Aug 24th 2007 11:15PM

Table tennis is a feakin complicated game to try to minimick in a one:one manner.. and, its also way, way faster than wiitennis (which is nothing like tennis at all).

Hence, the reason it plays like crap.. stick with buttons, they work 100% of the time.

Burnt Meatloaf @ Aug 25th 2007 4:15AM

Table tennis, in general, is a game not well suited to game consoles. I'd rather play shuffle puck or air hockey (so long as I don't have to pay $50 for it, of course).

hvnlysoldr @ Aug 24th 2007 11:16PM

Insert Penny Arcade comic of controls of XBLA game. I'm too lazy to search for it. Taking care of parrots isn't for the weak.

J-Guy @ Aug 24th 2007 11:31PM

Say, are you looking for a crew?

hvnlysoldr @ Aug 24th 2007 11:45PM

Ninjas don't have crews.

J-Guy @ Aug 24th 2007 11:57PM

Well they have ninja buddies. I mean look at the TMNT. There's four of them.

Seriously, I was going to ask you how you made your avatar. With Photoshop?

hvnlysoldr @ Aug 25th 2007 12:00AM

I'm not up for buddies. I'm bad at keeping in touch with buddies. I'm bad keeping in touch with people I encounter on a daily basis.

Yes I did photoshop my avatar. In fact I've been asked to photoshop a bunch of them. Click my name to see my photobucket account with them there.

J-Guy @ Aug 25th 2007 12:02AM

Nice images. I have a Photoshop disc right in front of me, but I never really got around to install it. Hope I can learn Photoshop quickly and make one of my own.

J-Guy @ Aug 25th 2007 12:02AM

Nice images. I have a Photoshop disc right in front of me, but I never really got around to install it. Hope I can learn Photoshop quickly and make one of my own avatars.

hvnlysoldr @ Aug 25th 2007 12:22AM

At least you didn't triple post an apology.

Generally in making Mario edit avatars I created a default Photoshop document of Mario's hat from the default Joystiq icon. I also found an equivalent Paper Luigi and created a default for Luigi's green hat. Using Photoshop I can then copy the Mario hat over nearly any photo to create a Mario edit. In Aex's Rukia Mario hat I created an extra layer over the held up drawing to create the illusion I put the hat on Rukia's head while keeping everything else in line.

For my own avatar I have a picture of my Mexican Red-headed Parrots (an Amazon variety.) Using the magnetic lasso I outlined her and resized her into a 64 by 64 pixel size to fit into the default Joystiq icon. So I put her on Mario's shoulder but decided not to horizontal flip her so she's sitting out away from Mario's direction. Then using pencil I put pixels of black for the eye patch and string, I'm used to this tedium since MS Paint. Then I decided to change M into Y based on my name. I tried several times before going in and white walling the entire inside and penciling a thin Y parallel to Joystiq readers but unfaithful to the hat's perspective and less legible in replies' size.

J-Guy @ Aug 25th 2007 12:43AM

lol yeah sorry about that double post

Also, I'd have to install Photoshop first to understand what you told me, but thanks for giving me an idea.

Banners @ Aug 25th 2007 2:01AM

@ J-Guy

You spent all that money on Photoshop and you haven't installed it?

Slaziman @ Aug 25th 2007 2:27AM

look at this ownage avatar hvnly made for me

its pimpin

ill trooper @ Aug 25th 2007 5:07AM

Aw yeah, avatar talk!

Lord Chako @ Aug 24th 2007 11:41PM

I was wondering how they'd do this.
The wii may have 1:1 control, but table tennis has many different spin/placement options. There is forward spin, back spin, left spin, and right spin, and force of the swing depending on how long you hold the button.
There isn't a whole lot of room for wrist/swing error as far placement goes with this game. Not to mention the fact, you need to be able to position your character at the same time.

At this point, I don't think it's possible to control 4 different spins, have 4 different player positions, and differentiate between hard and soft swings, all at the same time.

Word of the street. @ Aug 25th 2007 12:05AM

How the hell you screw something as simple as a pong game? The sad thing about this is that the wii was the only system in which this game had the chance of being actually fun.

Nice going Rockstar, the good thing is that Rockstar can’t make controversy for this game so it sells like hot pancakes.

Anam @ Aug 25th 2007 12:42AM

I will resume being unimpressed with motion controls. And for a second I thought joystiq meant "controls are insane" in a good way...

plyx @ Aug 25th 2007 1:09AM

The Wii is crap. I own one, I still think it's crap.

BPM @ Aug 25th 2007 1:29AM

Must be a different Rockstar from the one working on Manhunt 2. Previews I had read for Manhunt 2 said the controls were really good on Wii. [shrugs]

Hopefully, Rockstar takes time to polish this.

Adv2k1 @ Aug 25th 2007 1:42AM

you guys so DO NOT GET IT.

This game is cash in. They don't care if its crap, they are not trying. They are making Manhunt, Bully as well this is to test the market. So they are making ports as rushed as possible to cash in. damn the gameplay, damn the graphics, damn everything as long as casual gamers are likely to buy. ---Example 1 Mario Party 8 its about making a game that sells not making a game that is good.

Burnt Meatloaf @ Aug 25th 2007 4:26AM

Believe it or not, I gave the Wii a fair chance when it came out. I tried some games. However, it worked exactly as I thought it would: too many handicaps to make the system "accessible" to the mainstream. I don't feel like I'm in control because there's too many fudge factors. It's a gaming system with built-in training wheels.

What people know as the "casual market" today used to be called "mass market", and making games for the mass market was NOT a good thing. If you did that, you were a sell-out.

Will there be good games for the Wii? Sure. The controller does have some applications. However, it's just not versatile enough to handle ALL types of gameplay, which is why Nintendo sells the Virtual Console controller. Hey, guess what? That wonderful, revolutionary controller isn't good enough, so you can just buy another one... and another!

The Wii is about image and marketing. Nothing more.

People who are blaming Rockstar for this game's faults don't understand interface design -- or why all those Virtual Reality experiments in the late 80's never materialized into functional products. They do, however, understand pretty, shiny boxes and media hype.

Teknoman @ Aug 25th 2007 4:21AM

Also all they had to do for different spins is to just have the player hold a certain button on the wiimote for that spin/hit style and then swing the wiimote to register it. And the wiimote can sense whether its a hard or soft motion as well. The movement could've been assigned to the nunchuck's analog. Its not that hard -_-

Burnt Meatloaf @ Aug 25th 2007 4:34AM

You can't make the game accessible to the general population if you attempt to interpret "soft" and "hard" motion.

Everyone has different physical abilities, not to mention the fact that some people prefer to play sitting down instead of standing. There's too many ergonomic issues to make such distinctions. So, in the end, hitting a virtual ping pong ball is effectively the same as hitting a digital on/off button. Once again, that's another handicap that would prove necessary during product testing.

Ska Oreo @ Aug 25th 2007 8:58AM

Jesus christ people, Calm the fuck down!!! This is just a fucking preview version of the game in a convention. Most likely Rockstar will probably fix the controls to make it control better.

Long @ Aug 25th 2007 9:15AM

I think a major issue here is that almost everyone who isn't asian doesn't really appreciate how hard table tennis really is. in real table tennis, yes, you do have to worry about all those different things. top, slice, left, and right spin have a HUGE impact in table tennis as far as the curve of the ball and just as important, how the ball bounces off the paddle once it hits it.
the real question is, once you actually practice it, does it correlate well with your movements. I can see that if they went for an accurate portrayal of the different skills required in table tennis that it would take a while to learn.
as a tennis and table tennis player, i am desperately sick of wii tennis where you can hit a guaranteed winner off ANY serve if you time it just right. That, and it makes me sick to see my friend play wii tennis by swinging the wiimote like a fishing pole.